Will they throw us out?
While we are talking about all the things that are wonderful about this absolutely mindblowing city, I think it is time to take a pause and look at one of the headlines last week that managed to shake me of my comfort zone.
Sometimes, I wonder why this phrase, the politics of hate, even exists, because most of world polity thrives on hate. Jews Vs Moslems, Christians Vs rest of the world, Hindus Vs Moslems, North Indians Vs South Indians, Hindi speaking Vs Non Hindi speaking, Marathi Vs Other Indians….the menu for the politician of today to choose from is just endless. No politician wants to speak up and be answerable for the lack of development in their constituencies. Point fingers at the immigrants, and tell your people that they are the cause of all evil, and lo! their work is done. A spark is lit and the fire becomes all consuming, sparing none but the person who started it. Maybe a lot of Indians should just go and read the tale of the two cities, just to see how dangerous such things can be. The people of France shouting ‘Emigre’ and watching merrily the person being put to stake still sends shivers down my spine.
People in Mumbai who point fingers at emigrants from other states would do well to realize that most of their local heroes are not well, really all that local. Mumbai owes a lot to Parsis for making it the financial capital of this country, and hell, Parsis are not even of Indian origins. The entertainment industry in Mumbai, that holds in its realms the dreams and aspirations of a billion people is as cosmopolitan as any industry can get. People from Karnataka contribute in no small measure to the thriving south-Indian food industry. The dabbawalas are from all over-Bihar, UP, Tamil Nadu, Bengal…I could go on and on. For more, read the Mumbai metblogs.
I know that this blog is not about Mumbai, it is about namma Bengaluru, the second biggest cosmpolitan city in India. However, we do have our own versions of the Shiv Sena but they have been dormant for some time now.The latest in the politics of hate from Maharashtra will definitely set a lot of grey, or must it be black, cells ticking across the border. While it is perfectly OK to protect the interests of people of one’s state, it is also worthwhile to remember that we are Indians first and foremost. The people guarding our borders show no such regionalism. The people who entertain us, the people who keep our economy ticking, and hell, even the people who govern us are as diverse as India gets.
Diversity breeds progress. Bangalore a few years ago was a peaceful city, but it would do well to remember that it was also an extremely lazy and incompetent city. There was scarcity and when you went to a hotel in a group, you were scared to pick up the bill. Now, people are on the move, competing with the rest of India, talking to people from across the country, and yes not scared at picking up the tab for a friend. While most of the south-Indian hotel chains are operated and staffed by local people, the pubs are predominantly Sindhi-owned, the Gujrat’s and marwaris still prevail over the wholesale business, the Punjus make their presence in the Punju food outlets, and almost any kind of business, and the IT sector has people from everywhere. That is what makes Bangalore throb now, and although it is still not there in terms of its nearest competitor Mumbai, it is soon becoming the place to be. From rock bands to Jagjit Singh to Balmurali Krishna, every artiste gets an appreciative audience.
Why am I so concerned? My surname speaks of a city from Andhra Pradesh, so I must be Telugu, and a definite immigrant. Well, it is not really all that simple. I was raised and schooled in Karnataka, my maternal grandfather was raised in Andhra Pradesh, my maternal grandmother in Mysore, we belong to a caste called deshastha smarthas who migrated from Maharashtra, and I have cousins who are married to people from across India. And that is such a great thing because we know a lot many languages, cook a variety of foods at our homes, and our next generations will find it difficult to explain which state they exactly belong to. Where does this leave us in the politics of hate? We don’t belong to any state but to every one. Which state will accept us then?
My first love was a Kannadiga, my second a Sindhi, and my best friend who is closer to me than any blood relation is a Garhwali. Going by the second names of people in Bangalore metblogs, I know that the perspective here comes from a variety of people, much like the Mumbai metblogs, and very unlike another metblog from across the border.
Bangalore is destined for much bigger things, and there will be efforts to thwart it from such vested interests. We can only confront this by standing up for our friends and fellowmen of our city. The next time your friends talk something regional, please don’t hesitate to ask them to take a long, long walk.
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Nicely said & asked Preran. I have been thinking of writing on this topic as well. This is the new kind of divide & rule. Earlier it was religion now it is on the basis of region. I have a strong feeling that this approach is not going to win. Instead who ever practices this will get a lot of hatred & will bring his own downfall. It is a very narrow approach & completely absolutely one sided. I suppose some sections of the politicians across the state are gearing up for electins & would like to be in news. This kind of thing will surely keep them in news, but I feel it will backfire on them big time. I wish to ask all those who are supporting this cause for how long are they going to pursue this? Think about it. They are going to lose the battle according to me.
Bangalore too has seen this kind of region/state wise discrimination at the time of Cauvery water dispute. What happened thereafter? Did that approach win?
I would like to end this by asking. Are the people who are promoting this across the state limiting their vision & scope of operation only to the state of Maharashtra? Tomorrow sometime are they not going to look at things at the national level? How will they manage to pull in the votes then if they decide to become a major party?
This was well written and expressed!
Being from the US I don’t have any perspective to offer on this issue in India. But I do think this kind of thing happens world wide, particularly around issues of resource scarcity. I know in the US and England the white supremacists seem to gain influence when economic times get hard. They blame the immigrants for taking "their" jobs and making their lives difficult. People in California and the Southwest start pointing fingers at Mexicans when their jobs and social services start to go away. I am certain that much of the ethnic violence in Africa is really about scarce resources (good land, water, etc…)
I am just beginning to understand a few things about political and economic issues in India. Thank you for helping me to understand a little more.
Preran!
What a fabulous post. Very happy that your raise such topical and relevant issues. This wave of migrants into urban cities across India is a fundamental right of every citizen and our constitution guarantees it. Moreover, this is an offshoot of globalisation as well which ensures that only the most competent and/or entrepreneurial will get the job. To address this issue by people in the government, it requires statesman like thinking, attitude and vision. Unfortunately, we have illiterate & rabid politicians as our ‘leaders’ who add the dimension of emotion and convert such for their personal gains.
Ravi
PS: I liked several of the lines in your post. 2 of them "….it is also worthwhile to remember that we are Indians first and foremost" and "Bangalore is destined for much bigger things, and there will be efforts to thwart it from such vested interests" are the best!
While I agree that politicians do have a hand in sparking antagonism, there is also another side to this issue which is pretty much ignored by both popular media and immigrants to Bangalore. There is no smoke without fire. Politicians cannot ignite anything unless there is already some fuel to burn. Consider the some of the facts about the other side of the issue:
1. There is blatant insensitivity and disregard for local culture and language among immigrants in Bengalooru. This type of disregard is impossible in places like Hyderabad or Chennai. Outsiders in those cities would never dare to do that.
2. Do you know how much resistance there was by the various FM channels last year to broadcast Kannada programming? Most of the stations pretty much refused to give sufficient air-time to local language programming. Until they discovered this last month: average of 75% of all listenership is for Kannada radio channels. This is just one of many examples of the apathy shown for local language and culture.
3. And then there is the matter of discrimination against locals in the job market. This is very much a reality. I have heard about this from various friends. I have personally seen a company in Bengalooru, recruit more people from campuses in Chennai to fill positions in Bengalooru for my batch. This was 11 years ago. This practice has continued in lots of organizations in the city.
4. Most local people feel that they don’t have a voice in the city and its affairs. Bangalore Metblogs itself is a classic example. Most of the authors since the inception of this blog have been immigrants. The few truly local (born and/or brought up in the city) writers here are either neutral on these topics or concentrate on safer topics. I’m yet to see a writer on this blog who strongly represents the native points of view on issues.
What is most irritating is the apathy of the media and immigrants to these and more factors which bother local people. Immigrants ignore the concerns of local people. Immigrants perpetuate these things which are the cause of concern. And when confronted with truth, immigrants deny it and turn hostile. What about all that opposition to calling the city Bengalooru? Most of the opposition was from non-local people who feel more entitlement than local people. Was that really necessary? Even on that issue of the city’s name, there was nobody on this blog to give the local person’s perspective… except a few of us who left comments.
Bengalooru has welcomed immigrants for decades. More than any other city in India (including even Mumbai), Bengalooru is the place where outsiders have found the easiest assimilation. Heck, except for the ‘hometown’ sentiments, for most immigrants, this city has been much better than their native places - offering more opportunities, better lifestyle, better weather, etc. So, if there is a sudden expression of negativity towards immigrants in such a friendly place, you cannot chalk it up entirely to politicians who can’t do anything better. You have to consider the very real possibility that there might be some truth to the concerns of locals.
I hope this perspective from the other side helps this dialog and promotes better understanding among everybody.
LL
Lokesh: A very valid point in that parties operating at a regional level will never be able to make it at a national level. But then, these parties are not really interested in big or long term gains. They play to their strengths which is rake up emotions among the people who were not competent enough to get ahead with their lives, and of which there are quite a few in every state, if not a great majority. Immigrants who leave their homes bring with them the hunger to succeed, and that stirs up the hitherto complacent local folks into either better action or just violence agains those who made it.
Cindy: I am not sure if the problem in India at least is scarcity. There are plenty of jobs at the bottom of the pyramid at least that go abegging. It is more to do with the feeling that this is my state and this is my resource, and you better not touch that. Even if there is plenty of it, you want to keep it for more uncertain times than share it. Unless of course, when that keeping becomes harmful, as in water leading to floods, you become a little more generous.
Ravi: This is the point I was trying to make but did not. We are living in an increasingly globalized world. No one’s job is safe. You can either crib and get behind or work your ass off and get ahead.
Libran Lover:
If you read my post, you will understand that I am a Kannadiga myself, more in spirit than in letter like most vociferous activists are.
1. I have been in Bangalore for n number of years and want to know what this ‘local’ culture is? Culture, my friend, changes with time and with people. It is as fluid and subject to change as languages are. Do you speak the same Kannada that people spoke a thousand years before? How many people can understand that dialect now? Kannada, if it is strong enough, will withstand the onslaught or adapt itself to changing times unlike people who will prevent it from doing so. In its last few hundred years, Kannada has added on words from several languages, and is all the more richer for it. Contrast it to a language that tried throwing out all Sanskrit words from its dictionary. And one, if not more, of the gnanpith awardees are of a different native language. Unless you can tell me what you mean by local culture, I wil not get what you are trying to say. Are you offended by the pubs, the western music, the fashion? Do you want people to go about dressed in lungis and sarees….how many kannadigas do that still? Bangalore still celebrates all its festivals with the same kind of enthusiasm that it used to. Pray, what has changed? I have never faced any blatant insensitivity of the kind you are talking of.
2. You have answered this question yourself. In a global market, money is the key. Sooner or later, people will do the thing to make money. The FM channels are not doing it for the love of Kannnada as you can see for yourself. However, going by your logic, can I go for an equally flawed statement saying that a lot of kannadigas listen to FM because they do not have enough money to buy a good mp3 player. Truths can be twisted at will my friend to suit the person.
3. Job market is purely market-driven. The biggest IT company in Bangalore is owned by a resident Kannadiga. Even allowing for the fact that people are recruiting from other states, why don’t my people rise to such positions and recruit their own? Such cases of discrimination I have heard of in the end turn out to be a case of sour grapes than based on statistics. I am from the IT industry and I know for a fact that the demand here is short of supply.
4. Hitting out at the authors is I think as low as you can get. Comment on the topic; not the authors. People have a right to their opinion. You can discard your alias and join the group too. At least we are not scared to put our words and faces on the blog and speak out for a city which we hold very very close to our hearts. That is the single purpose for which we are here.
I don’t think the immigrants can answer the questions of the locals. This is a free country and people can live the kind of lives they want as long as it does not infringe on the lives of others. I have seen absolutely nothing in Bangalore that can cause such concern you talk of.
Do not compare Bangalore with cities that no one ever wants to migrate to. Instead, hold your head high that we continue to promote diversity and goodwill. That has always been our USP.
I feel no problem having immigrants in namma bengaluru unless they accept to be part of this place. They feel some dedication to place which gave them opportunities to grow. many of them are here for money. they don’t feel attached to the city as such. its not their hometown. when it comes of dedication they always care for place they came from even if they levied in that place for say 5 years and in bangalore for 30years but they are dedicated to their native. I don’t say its wrong to have such feelings for their natives, but boss do care for place which has supported you. do not discriminate among the 2 places. love both the places whole heartedly is what I want to say. I have an example to say here, recently one of my colleague had to travel to his native for his wedding and he didn’t get any train/bus tickets. he decided to go one way by taxi, he had got return tickets to come back. he said he has asked his parents to send taxi from his native. I just asked him why u wanted to trouble them for such small thing, u could have hired one from bangalore itself, is there any difference in money? he replied saying anyway I am going one way, the taxi has to come back empty, If I book from native my hometown people will be benefited. why should I give profit to bangalore people!! such a thought wouldn’t even crossed one’s mind if he were dedicated to place where he lived and earned money. I have even seen people doing business with their native people in bangalore or people who speak their language. Even in office if they see someone one from their native they do favors even without asking. Isn’t it their duty to help everyone in the team or organization. why? why consciously these immigrants want to make discriminations?? Is it only local’s fault for the hatred being built?
This is turning out to be a good debate. Deepa, I do hope that you understand that your one friend dooesn’t represent the millions of immigrants in Bangalore. I know of several people from outside Karnataka in my own company who do selfless service on weekends, helping out NGOs, and teaching poor children. Such people are not heard of because bad people always get better noticed than the good ones. There will always be rotten apples. And I am sure such stupid immigrants, like your friend, are in a minority.
When you talk of something, it cannot be based on a personal experience. It has to be based on statistics. Have you never met someone from outside the state who has not helped you in Bangalore or someone from whom you learnt something you did not know before?
The person who was nominated for lead India from Bangalore is not a native Bangalorean. So for that matter are a lot of people who have made Bangalored a dictionary name.
Businesses, as I said earlier are run purely on the merits of money. If a Gujrati is sure he can make tons of money he will take that decision over a fellow Gujrati. I have friends in the business circles, and I know that except for marriages, compromises can be made on any other front. I am not saying that there is no colonization but then you can see that among the Gujratis in Mumbai who buy up entire apartments and don’t rent it to non-Gujratis or among caste Hindus who don’t rent out their apartments to the lower born. In the end, it is about survival for each one of us. I am sure that the native Kannadiga has enough in him to challenge any person intelectually. Maybe we are just not doing enough. Have you ever considered the other side that the people who are doing business among themselves don’t really want to risk doing trade with others whose knowledge is suspect? Wouldn’t you do the same under such circumstances?
The thing is you can keep pointing fingers and blame everything else for your problems but on the other hand, you can take up the challenge and prove that you can play by those rules. Respect will automatically come, like it did to a lot of successful people who rose from their humble beginnings to what they are today. Do you think Mumbai would have achieved its fame without the Ambanis, the Tatas, the Chopras, the Khans, the Mangeshkars, all of whom are from outside the state.
People in your office, I am sure, are not ideal stuff but then they are paying taxes to this state, traveling through this state and its tourist spots, and generating revenue for the locals. Isn’t that good enough?
If you have ever been to the US, or are there still, haven’t you seen Indians group up without mixing with the local populace? There may be many reasons for that but the common feeling it generates among the native US folks is that Indians in general are an unfriendly, stick-to-your bunch lot. And is there anything they can do about it?
First and foremost let the author stop making this kind of non-sense statement "but it would do well to remember that it was also an extremely lazy and incompetent city" What makes you think we were incompetent and how did so incompetent become competent?? did outsiders make us competent ?? loads of Central govt PSUs like BEL,BHEL,ITI, Bnagalore was the preferred destination. SO was the case with loads of state govt PSUs like Mysore lamps and Mysore soap factory. Thats not alone Bnagalore was also the preferred destination for Pvt sectors as well ex:Kirloskar electricals etc. Forget these things even Bnagalore was preferred destination for R&D sector as well the best example being IISC,ISRO,DRDO and IIM. If Bangalore was a incompetent city why on earth did so many organizations operated out of bangalore ???
Yes even the so called ‘outsiders’ did come to bangalore even during those times along with them they brought in their cultures as well ex: karumariyamma utvasa and Ayappa Bhane manadalis. But this so called OUTSIDER and INSIDER factor was some thing unheard about!! but why ?? thats was because the so called outsiders wanted to make this city their home. They had no intentions to use the city as toilet napkin paper and throw it out. They never degraded local language and local culture ( what ever that means )but consider a case now I walk into a shopping mall and I am greeted in English when i insist the service in Kannada ( i have all the right to do so ) i am politely told " I don’t know Kannada". This kind of Apathy was not here with the previous wave of so called OUTSIDERS. This kind of alienation was never experienced by so called LOCALS during the 1st wave. Not the mall even the Local Kannada language is not visible in the Bank ATMs and also in the all time nonsense services like the tele caller.They start the conservation in English else switch over to Hindi!! But why Hindi ?? Now dont come up with NATIONAL LANGUAGE crap in a country like ours where culture and dialect changes every 100 Kms its only one of those few flawed policies which no politician hsa guts to crap that law since they fear back clash from the HINDI belt that elects max number of MPs to Lokasabha. If you show rigidness to learn hindi you are termed anti national!! how flawed is the argument and their policies.Now consider the fact none of the present "outsider" actually supported the Cauveri cause!! the very cauveri thats the life line of south Bnagalore which plays host to loads of IT companies where you find the max number of outsiders. Remember even the Tamil ITI sangam supported the cause and were on the roads for agitation!!! But none for the second wave of " outsiders" if this is not apathy then what is it ??
Well these kind of apathy and alienation towards the local people caused the birth of fringe elements and people had no problem in identifying with them and supporting their cause.Now these elemet shave grown in strength and power such that none is ready to take them head on.
Remember Karnataka is the only state in South that has no regional party as in AP ( TDP,TRS) TN ( DMK,AIADMK) Mah( SS,MNV) ( commies in Kerala is a fringe party that has presence in WB only)thats goes on to show that there never really existed a cause to fight for the people on the language and culture front as what is happening now.
Its some thing for the State govt and Central govt to think about …………
I do agree when a city grows it is because of every individual living in that city. I am not standing against any immigrants or asking them not to come. I have definitely seen non bangaloreans, non kannadigas having concern for problems and situations here. wanting to be part of this place. proud to be in bangalore. Also lot of bangalorean’s are welcoming people from diffrent states, making them part of their life. bangaloreans speak more languages compared to others. They dont teach all these in school. Since it is an interesting topic and everyone a localite or an immigrant is going through these talks daily, I wanted to show some more face of this discussion. I believe no discriminations to be made in any category. Its not only local’s are making discriminations, even immigrants are making discriminations is what i wanted to say.
One more for Libran Lover. When you are in Mumbai, do visit the numerous south Indian hotels, the Udupi ones. Most of them are staffed with people from south canara. Bunts, the most influential community from that district made its millions in Mumbai by recruiting from within its community. How would you like it if one fine day the Shiv Sena throws out these poor folks from Mumbai? Or say, they just took over Belgaum because more people there can speak Marathi than Kannada?
If you like the Marathi guys, your leader will say: hey look, they are stealing your district. If you like the Tamil guys, they will say that they are stealing your water. If you like the Kerala guys, they will say they are stealing Kasargod. They feast on your hatred. Give me one politician who asks you to love India and your neighboring states as your own. Politics simply does not work that way in this country at least.
Coming to culture, do travel a little across India. Setting aside the superficialities, we are bound by the same things: our love for music, movies, cricket, festivals, and family. There is very little difference in our way of living. The people whose culture you talk of are that miniscule minority who have the money to indulge in the new luxuries that India offers. The rest of them just want to make a living and get on with their life. They lead the same life that you and I do - same culture and all that stuff.
Deepa, I got your point, loud and clear. Large scale immigration poses problems not only in India but anywhere in the world. Ask Britons who have problems with Asians, ask Americans who have problems with Latinos, and ask the French who have problems with the rest of the world :) Yes, immigrants would should dissolve like sugar in water but that is such a perfect world we are talking of, sigh! :)
And Chhappar, except for BHEL, where are the other companies you are talking of, including Kirloskar? And there was a company called HMT too who had a huge edge over Titan. Where are they? I have worked in the manufacturing industry a decade back, and know how laidback each of these companies were. They might look good in retrospect but unfortunately, turned out to be white elephants more due to incompetence than anything else. Mysore sandal soap was a favorite in my family (aaah…nostaliga!) like most other families in my neighborhood, and now, it remains just that…a sweet memory with few buyers.
When you write such good English, I am sure you can speak to the guys in the mall in that language. Of course, I would have sympathised with you had you really not known the Queen’s language. On the other hand, I have seen Kannada people talk to waiters in English at Darshinis knowing fully well how difficult they are making life for them. If the guy was a new recruit from another state, there is little chance that he would have known Kannada. The shop that hired him wouldn’t have put Kannada on his list. So, if you really want to vent your ire, maybe you should register it with the owner. Each drop makes an ocean, remember?
I learnt Hindi on my own because it is one language that I can use in most parts of India except a few areas in the remote south. National language or not, it helps me get myself across to the common man. You can always choose not to learn it. If there are enough people like you, and you have a lot of money to spend, believe me, just tell the banks and they will add your language, just like the FM guys did. In the end, it is all about money, honey!
Companies closed coz people were lazy ?? how flawed……. companies surviving or not surviving depends on various external and internal environmental factors. Globalizaton has taken its toll on indian industries thats a good thing or bad thing is a different issue all together. But the reality is these companies simply could not survive once the gavt stoped patronizing them. And companies in Bnagalore were no exception.
ITI ->> Mainly provides telephone inventories to Army and hence is still not closed. BEL->> is still in place and the traffic lights which we use every day is given by these guys."Mysore sandal soap a nostalgia" !!! just coz u stoped using it?? its still available in shops and thas has kept me clean fom past 25 years or so. Dhoni is the Brand ambassador !! The same Dhoni who endorses Videcon. This means that this company is not only surviving but quite vibrant as well. However these comp are also dogged by the problems that are faced by any other govt PSUs in India.
Yes I can write and speak better english than the guy who sells me under ware in shop. But my point was what if a person who does not know English or Hindi enters the shop how is he catered?? ( my driver for example ) Will he be simply not served coz he does not know english or Hindi ?? Who will speak up for his cause?? If people like me don not speak up again he will take refuge with the fringe elements and there will large scale chaos and problem for every one including so called ‘LOCALS’.Kannada people speaking to waiters in English :) in Darshinis they are nano mini fraction of the population.
Learning language depends on the socio-ECONOMIC factor. higher you are in the socio-ECONOMIC ladder chances that you know more number languages . PV Narasimha Rao knew more than 10 languages!!!.What I am telling you is the so called outsiders should stop cribbing abt driver,housemaid not speak Hindi or english we the so called educated have to take the initiative to learn more languages atleast to suffice our day-to-day activities. Instead of this they get people from north who are in no way better than the locals in terms of brain or brawl for filling the jobs of watchman and housemaid!!! Now this is unacceptable. Remember GOORKAH and Timil construction workers were not opposed coz they only filled the gap which the locals simply could not do it.
Oh ho the FM will listen and take our suggestions from the state with only 26 MPs in loksabha?? That is too much to ask. When the CLASS D railway recruitment for south division was notified only in Hindi news papers!!!
Look the bottom line is simple. Either respect and Gel with the locals ( the most easiest thing ) who are represented by highly educated people else allow the marginalized people to be represented by the current day fringe elements who would grow up tomorrow to be Frankensteins and gobble up the whole city and subsequently India.
Now the "outsiders" have to make a choice if they want to save this city or not??
Personally, I find the ‘lazy and incompetent city’ tag to be way off the mark. Bangalore has been in the forefront of many advances in India and some of the other comments explain that beyond doubt.
The problem in my opinion is the use of issues that can whip up emotions and this is something politicians are good at raking up. Language and culture - though being used as a cloak in both Mumbai and Bangalore - are not so effective in whipping up emotions.
Money/ income levels and employment, and something as basic as water that has to be/ intended to be shared, are.
But, using the increased economical statuses of immigrants can again be dicey because the politicians are perhaps far worse in amassing wealth, often through illegitimate means. So, they need an interesting angle to cloak the issue. Hence, culture and language.
If people are genuinely bothered about their language, they’d be doing everything else besides protesting that immigrants learn it too. They’d rather be watching more Kannada films, reading more from Kannada’s rich literature and organizing awareness programs on how rich the language actually is. But alas, that is a prerogative of a select few, for a l-o-n-g time. The man protesting on the road is bothered and worried that non-Kannadigas are earning more and the percentage of people speaking other languages and boss over Kannadigas is increasing. This is a fair concern, since better earning power means a more convincing say on how the city is run, indirectly - so you’ve more non-Kannadiga movies releasing in the state thanks to the population that can afford to spend more on them, more services targeted at them and Hindi/ vernacular boards besides Kannada.
These do change the character of a city, but not necessarily for the worse. It just makes the city more cosmopolitan and approachable to strangers - like most cosmopolitans across the world.
Someone took the Chennai example. Chennai is perhaps far more regressive to north Indians, calling them with a blanket ‘Sayt’ tag! That goes for even fair skinned Tambrahms who are considered sayt due to the skin color. But, Chennai is far bigger and has evolved considerably, so you find pockets of all cultures across the city. But I do agree that they’re far more closed to other languages (example, FM stations like Mirchi who were forced to change to complete Tamil programming). But, thats not a good example to begin with.
Actually, there’s no fair or logical example within the country that Bangalore can look up to. Most examples skew strongly towards regional, partisan politics, mostly for election-related gains.
Can we stop this discussion now? Everyone has made their points/viewpoints/counterpoints known.
Given that the educated elite who commented on this blog have greviances against immigrants, how can we fault the people who smashed cars in Mumbai.
Educated elite can be provoked by a article to vent fire, then I am sure lesser mortals can be provoked by speeches to do much bigger damage.
Somehow, Sadly, I don’t fault Raj thackharey any more now.
Me - outsider become insider over a dozen years here.
Love the coffe, the friendliness of the people, and the diversity of Ktka - its a fusion of so many cultures, languages, foods, geographies, architectural styles etc that make this one of the most diverse, travel-able and fascinating states.
I can’t fathom for the life of me who’s an outsider/insider. The Coorgi ? Bangalorean ? Guy from Bellary ? UK ? Mangalore ? Kasargod ?
I’ve been beaten up off the highway near Nanjungod, also enjoyed coffee and hospitality all across, fallen in love with Coorg, been mesmerized by Hampi’s poetry in stone with Telugu-script-and-a-dunno-what-tongue ….
Whats this static culture that ppl speak of ? Who gives the right to the just-arrived to comment on the "laziness" or "nationalism" in the city ? As we often say in learned, amused tones in our friend circle - "Bl**dy Naarth Indians" (we’re all that in those circles, btw)
Bangalore and indeed, all of Ktka, is a wonderful blend, with open minds, arms and lovely coffee.
I guess we can safely (?) ignore the fringe sorts of all hues and carry on with our lives. I daresay a Shiv Sena like org will never have a mass following in Karnataka , cause its ethos is very different.
I love the city a hell lot more than a lot of louder noisemakers - especially those running the Bangalore show (they surely cannot love the city/state and neglect it thus).
And I’m firmly an insider by now.
I think linguistic identity is something we all have. But I think a sense of "I am indian" is also there to a large extent within Indians. So there isn’t an issue really. (Though I am out of touch with specific events if you are referring to them).
Socially its natural for one kind of people to insulate against another - in the seventies, my dad would complain (in Madhya pradesh) about a Bengali clique ‘ganging up’ and playing politics at work. Mallus would hang-out with Mallus etc.. You know the stereo-types (meaning they could be myths - just like the myth of a black man being a mugger in America).
Here in Washington DC, the NewYork migrants standout, as do the californians, and the West Virginians have their own takes. (I am talking about white/black Americans).
The Kannadigas of Bangalore perhaps are not unique. (I used to be one of these). The most vocal (and looked down upon) of these are unfortunately perhaps not upwardly mobile. These are the ones that burn buses when there is an issue.
With a lot of good things going for it, there have been some negatives about Bangalore. All the native Kannadigas have been a bit too lazy, complacent about taking care of their beautiful language and culture.
Bangalore is a city of immigrants. So is Washington DC, where I am an immigrant. I know that an immigrant is driven & aggressive. The original natives of metro-Washington DC frequently wish for the ‘good old days’. And sometimes one hears the same from old-time Kannadigas.
I think I have seen both sides of the equation. I know what the ‘good old days’ mean. In either case (Washington DC or Bangalore), its the old timers wishing for lesser language dilution, more of their own kind .. an inability to cope with or accept change.
Why can’t we all get along? Would we stay true to kannada culture if we spoke Bangalore kannada ? Then that would mean the versions spoken in Dharwad/ Belgaum or Mangalore would be non standard. And I lived in Karnataka for about 20 yrs in 5-6 towns/ cities. The foods are so varied ragi mudde/rottis like akki, jola, kori etc. Which is the real kannada recipe?
When a certain family ran the film industry, theatres would run empty inspite of the tax break for Kannada films. Guess what, no one wanted to see crappy films even if the prices were cheap. Now that the stranglehold of the family is removed, excellent films are being produced. I bought my first CD in ages and it is the Mungaru Maley soundtrack, composed by a "foreign" Kannadiga . So is a Kannadiga who lives in the US a mannina maga?
People seem to be scared of competition. When an outsider moves in we don’t want a level playing field. Let others live in B’lore. The kannadigas should show them why Karnataka is one of the best places to live.
Preran,
I am not a Kannadiga, as in my mother tongue is not Kannada. I was born and brought up in Bengalooru. Right now, I am living as an immigrant myself in another city. I have observed this issue from many different angles. I have interacted with people representing differing sides with an open mind. If you think that I cannot present the very same arguments that you have presented, you would be totally mistaken. I know and understand all that you are saying even before you say it. What I (and countless other Kannadigas ask) is that people like you listen to us.
We all have two choices in tackling this issue: We can carry on intellectual discussions and tell each other that ideally people should not be intolerant, all the people should be the epitome of virtue like Gandhiji, etc. Or, we can take the practical and pragmatic approach, open our eyes, ears and minds to the other person’s point of view, understand it and then see what practical steps can be taken to address the real issues.
Sure culture is dynamic and ever-changing. That doesn’t mean we should let one culture just outright erode another culture. How would you like it if Western culture totally eradicated Indian culture overnight? It is a fact that Western culture is indeed eradicating Indian culture rapidly, but that is a discussion for another day.
Just because you have not seen blatant insensitivity to local culture in Bengalooru does not mean it does not exist. Do you know that there are certain areas in Bengalooru which look like they are in Tamilnadu and not in Karnataka? Everything there from posters on walls to the party ticket on which local corporation councillors run for elections is in Tamil. A couple of years ago, there was the case of railway ticket reservation forms in Indiranagar being available in English, Hindi and Tamil languages. Kannada versions of forms the forms were absolutely unavailable in that office. The list just goes on and on.
If you think the job market (even in the IT sector) is purely market driven, you are living in Utopia. I belong to the IT sector too. The earlier example I gave about my former company recruiting majority of people from Chennai colleges for my batch was in one of the biggest IT companies in Bengalooru. I have personally seen a Mallu project manager in this company giving preference to other Mallus for all onsite assignments from his account. Region- and language-based discrimination starts from recruitment and continues through the career. That is the unfortunately reality in many places. Suggestions such as - why don’t Kannadigas "rise to such positions and recruit their own?" is extremely short-sighted and childish. The way to tackle one wrong is not by repeating the same wrong.
I am not hitting out at any authors of this blog. I have nothing personal against anybody. I only mentioned this blog as an example of how a strong local voice is often missing in many forums related to Bengalooru. This is a fact - this blog indeed lacks a strong voice to present the local point of view among the authors. There are people like tarlesubba who do a better job expressing that point of view in the comments. This is the reality. Again you have the choice of taking this personally and arguing this point for the sake of talking. Or, you can open your eyes and notice the fact. Noticing and admitting facts has an added advantage of being the first step to rectification. Come on, seriously… don’t you think that something valuable is missing here if there is nobody to present some good local flavor? I don’t mean just on this topic. This pertains to other non-controversial topics also.
You wrote: This is a free country and people can live the kind of lives they want as long as it does not infringe on the lives of others. I have seen absolutely nothing in Bangalore that can cause such concern you talk of.
The whole point of my previous and current comment is exactly this: Infringement is really happening in many aspects of life in Bengalooru. Just because you have not seen it, doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
LL
Guys, thank you for commenting. Your comments have indeed given me the feeling that Bangalore still retains that spirit of camraderie that we so often feel will be lost with time. The topic is such that we could go on and on.
Handling an exodus of immigrants is never an easy task for a city. Immigrants disturb the status quo of a city and it takes time for people on both sides to get used to each other.
For people who found the word incompetent or lazy hard to digest, I am sorry, but I stick to my opinion and respect yours too. After all, that was a statement of the not-so-near past and should not affect us too much. Maybe I can use the word laidback that is much more polite but conveys very little. English does offer such ambiguous choices.
I am a strong believer in survival of the fittest and anti-protectionism in every sense. Give everything a free go and those languages, religions, cultures that have it in them to survive will survive. A lot of my friends write to me in Hindi using the English script. Sindhi in India is written both in Devnangari and Arabic script. Like us, languages, religion, and culture will evolve under our very nose without us knowing it.
I love most Indian languages, all Indian customs and traditions with the same passion because they give me a flavor of this country in total. I could choose to just love one but that would be like eating daal chaawal every day.
Libran lover, thank you for pointing out the fallacy of recruiting one’s own. Yes, I have heard of such things happening in offices and I truly understand that just because I have not seen it doesn’t mean it does not happen. If you have suggestions for people under such circumstances that are non-violent, fair, and achieve the result, let me know, and I will blog while giving you all the credit. Better still, you could blog yourself.
If there are grievances, they should be addressed through the law, and not by burning public transport or taking the law into one’s own hands. What happened in Mumbai is a national shame and should be stemmed before such fire spreads to other cities. Raj Thackeray’s imminent arrest provides that hope.
Again, thank you everyone. This has been a wonderful discussion. Does not mean that I have the last word yet, though. It is just that I may not have anything to say.
Preran,
Good post. But I have been observing your posts off late. Why is that you are casually targetting tamilians and the language? In some previous post you had mentioned about ‘Except for one state’. And here about ‘Except for one language which threw out sanskrit words’. I am not sure if it was accidental or deliberate, but I think it is unnecessary to drag in Tamil here :) I am not sure if you are aware, but Tamil is older than sanskrit. And the aryans who came south (Mostly jains) mixed tamil and sanskrit words. Lots of research had gone into replacing the sanskrit words with the tamil words which were there before. So please do not say things like ‘Contrast it to a language that tried throwing out all Sanskrit words from its dictionary.’
Immigrantji, it should be clear from my posts that I am against any sort of over-protectionism, and states and people who resort to that.
I wrote quite a bit after these lines but realized that this is another argument altogether, maybe for another day.
Meanwhile, maybe you could ponder what the enlightened people of your state achieved by removing other words from your language except make it poorer by so many words.
By the way, such self-destructive acts are not the sole privilege of your language. The Hindi scholars tried throwing out all the English words till they realized the futility of the exercise. People do not refer to the dictionary when they speak. They use what they feel is simple and communicable. For more, refer to, "How the mind works" by Steven Pinker.
One of the reasons for lack of a strong regional party in Karnataka (unlike TDP,TRS or DMK/ADMK or SS/MNS) is a lack of stature politicians who commands respect all over Karnataka. The districts in Karnataka are so distinct that only regionalism prevails. South Karnataka (Bangalore, Mysore, Mandya et) politicans do not hold sway over UK or DK or Coorg. similarly North Karnataka politicans will not get any votes in central. There is Hyderabad Karnataka, Bombay Karnataka rather than Kannada Karnataka.
Due to this no party or politician can show a united future for locals across the state. The food, art, music, festivals are all different in each of these regions in Karnataka. Inspite of all this it should have been possible to unite if only a statesman politician was available.
As someone mentioned, the angry of the locals against the recent wave of immigrants than the first wave of immigrants is because the first wave of immigrants were from south - TN, AP, Kerala and some Maharashtra. Most of these states have common (to most extent) food or festival habits and work culture while the recent wave of immigrants from North (BIMARU belt) have brought in a set of people (not all) who do not want to appreciate the south indian way of doing things and create a ruckus in all places be it in petty shop or bus or food menus in office cafetaris or even the FM radio played in company buses. They proudly speak in media that they have stayed in Bangalore for more than 5/10/15 years but do not know kannada. How many of the immigrants even watch any Kannada news channel (forget about entertainment) to know what is happening locally ? how many of them read newspapers like DH or Hindu which cover the local/state news much more than crappy TOI which covers only Hinglish news.
One reason that most of the low paid jobs like security or waiter or retail attendants or masons or construction workers are being non-Kannadigas is that Kannadiga in other parts of state are not ready to do these jobs. Most of them are satisfied with typical clerical/office/govt/bank jobs or local shop ones than come to Bangalore to take up these jobs in city. So due to demand and supply lots of immigrants from other states have come into these jobs.
Hey. You got me all wrong. The words were not thrown out. They were replaced. So how can the language be poorer? :) It is like replacing Bangalore with Bengalooru :) Peace! I am not trying to argue here.
Preran, It is very irrelevant for you to drag other languages/culture/state into your post which is not related. Give respect to other culture as well. Bangalore metblogs has been a very decent place where these kind of issues were not seen. Its good for you to maintain the same.
We must look at the history before drawing conclusion about one’s ability to adjust with outsiders.
India was never a country with one culture and one language. Before independence, we were all a bunch of separate identities with a different language, culture, way of living. Now in the name of One country, one language, the center is forcibly imposing Hindi on every culture/ language. The people who have hindi as their mother tongue thinks they are superior to others and expects everybody else to speak in hindi. Anybody who disagees is regarded as less patriotic.
When we talk about Unity in Diversity, we must give equal respect to the word Diversity as much we give to Unity. The diversity of culture, language, customs, way of living must be respected and protected. What we see now is exactly the opposite. Marathis are big hearted people, who have welcomed anyone to everyone. But, have the outsiders returned the good will in the same spirit?? Sadly, I would say no. Everybody is free to move and settle anywhere in India, but people should respect the local’s culture/language and locals too and should try to become a part of the local’s social fabric.
Why haven’t the marathis targetted Gujjus, South Indians? coz for a simple reason that they have learnt Marathi, have become a active part of the maharashtrian culture and Biharis/UPwalas should take a lesson from them.
Lastly,
Why this mass migration from states like UP/BIhar?? It is for a simple reason that the administration there have failed miserably to look after their people by failing to provide them any kind of security for life and livelyhood.
The Laloos/Mulayams first should develop their states on par and create jobs for their people instead of creating just new train services to lucrative locations for their people to migrate.
This whole "respect" thingy is very weird. How do I give respect to any language/culture/cuisine/peoples ?
* by bowing humbly before them ?
* by "submitting" to what they think is right or wrong ?
* by ensuring I speak/speak of no other alternatives ?
I do not know Kannada too well, yet I take pride in the few words I speak, and feel nostalgic if I see a KA— on my trips anywhere. I never spoke Bangla, yet the association with the place where I grew up ensures I try and make it to every Durga Puja. I cannot even understand Malayalam, but that does not stop me from celebrating the flavours and aroma of a well done ishtew with fresh appams.
Narrowness is what I DONT celebrate - from whatever state, place, person, country. And I refuse to let *anyone* dictate how I must or must not pay respect to any specific idea or language or whatever.
You’re free to disagree, cause from where I stand, you live in a democracy too though from where you stand, you and I probably do not, and I must subscribe to what you think is correct.
Weird place this "richer" India’s turning into.
[ Aside - my wife was traveling in a bus yesterday, trying to make the best of the not-that-great "Learn Kannada in 30 days" when the conductor struck up a conversation and admired her effort, asked about what she does, etc. I do think all the hangups, anxiety, desire-to-protect-our-honour-ness etc are more part of the psyche of those with other partly or unrelated issues, and for whom this is a convenient vent to their sundry, less glamorous problems]
@Raju - why must you generalize and cling to the "easy explanations" ? A few self styled "Pro-Kannada" activists have always blackened boards, made threatening noises - yet I still love the city for its friendliness (and coffee, weather)
At a political level there might have been a dumb make-everyone-use-Hindi movement - but do you really know how much of even the "North" speaks "pure Hindi" as prescribed ?
Would you say large swathes of Andhra have "security" and "administration" ? Nopes - they are practically under a Red Flag. Does that give me reason to point fingers at every citizen of the state and say "you fled" ? Hardly. Yes Bihar and large parts of UP do have political, industrial problems and are regressive - but the finger pointing and ghettoization is hardly going to help. Various places at various times in history have had issues. Do not rush into simplistic one-theory-fits-all explanations please.
If you really believe that the "Marathis" are targetting the "Northies" in Mumbai right now - all I can say is - paraphrasing decently a line from "Black Friday" - you’ve let yourself been had. The Sena is raising a battle cry for lack of positive issues that it can raise or do anything about, and they couldn’t care less about the average Marathi or any other Manoos rotting away in hunger and despair, and long as they manage to strike enough fear and get enough press in their constituency. For the record, they have (in the past) and probably still do target South Indians. They’ve off and on been crying hoarse about "Maharashtra for Marathis only".
How abt an "India for Indians only" and chuck all these "Marathis", "Kannadigas", "Biharis", Gujaratis", "Bengalis" and "Whatevers" out ? I know its good to actually have the diversity (the sameness of the US gets to one, for instance) but there seem to be more voices expressing a fear of the other than a celebration of, and the whole diversity thing is beginning to be a little bit of a pain, really.
@Sameer,
Respecting one’s culture doesn’t mean you need to bow your head.
Respecting one’s culture/language means
1> Trying to know the culture, heritage, language, people of the land you make as your new home.
2> Locals are the ones who have lived in that place for thousands of years and we must not hurt them or their feelings by asking them
"No Kannad, hindi mein baat kar", " Kya kannad, speak in national language" kinds
A simple phrase to pass the meaning of my earlier msg " Be a Roman while in Rome"
Hope that sums of what I want to tell you.
I am not against anybody coming to my city. All are welcome as long as they stay in their limit and respect the fact that they are the guest who have come here and we are the host.
You seems to be a gentleman with nice thoughts. Adopting to the culture of the place is what everyone expects.
Be a Bengali when you are in Bengal, Be a Maharashtrian when you want to be a part of Maha.
Again, Be a roman while in rome sums of the cause and solution to all the recent things.
I protest the use of the word "immigrant" in these columns, because the word means, a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence.
Bangalore is not another country, nor is Mumbai. It is the capital city of Karnataka where every citizen of India has the right to come, travel, stay, start an occupation etc. These are Fundamental Rights guaranteed by the Indian constitution.
If India had a strong Prime Minister, people like Raj Thackeray and people belonging to Kannada Rakshna Vedike and other fringe forums could have been cooling their heels in jail. Their remarks are a gross violation of the constitution, basic human rights and outright preposterous. No person believing in democracy will utter such unpardonable words.
If Kannadigas are so proud of their "culture", they have all the freedom to continue living by that. Why should they want to join the "culture" of IT companies and similar western culture inhabited by aliens from other states?
People from other states live in Bangalore not because they like the city so much. It is because of their families and their career. If given a chance or if there comes a good opportunity, most of the south Indians will leave Bangalore for their native towns. This is because outsiders are shattered by the greed shown by landlords, shopkeepers, auto drivers, and politicians. It is only after IT came that many bought a few cents of land and erected three-storeyed buildings just for rent and take 10 months rent as advance, which is downright illegal. It is because of a few sensible Kannadigas that the city still survives. Otherwise, nobody likes the present-day Bangalore, which is full of filth, pollution and rowdies.
High prevalence of gay sex in Pune, Bangalore’
http://www.hindu.com/2008/02/14/stories/2008021460111100.htm
What an achievement!
@Kumar
Again, the same sweeping generalizations.
First you say you’re here cause of economic considerations. Perfectly fine. (I am too, but have now come to love this city too - tho thats a totally separate discussion)
Next, you brand the other’s actions born of similar economic considerations "greed". Yes, a lot of the actions which are part of the economy - both in the IT industry and those at a local level - are irrational and short term (salary growth in the last couple of years, real estate prices, auto fares, rental hikes, restaurant prices) - but either ALL of it is greed, or none is. Its only fair to use the same yardstick.
Few ? Most Kannadigas (or for that matter, people subscribing to any identity) i’ve met are sensible. I do think the fringe voices are being given too much of an audience and weightage in these discussions.
Hi
On these very blogs someone in a comment told me to go back to where I came from. Yes, I see an unrest here as well.
I recently posted on my blog: Who am I? which I reproduce below.
Who am I? I think I am throughly mixed up. Been a Bombayite for several generations together, having learnt Marathi in school, still able to understand it and now in Bangalore since a few years - what does this make me? A Bombayite, or as the Thackerys would prefer to call it - a Mumbaikar? Or a Banglorean or a Bengalururian?
I cant’ believe it, that at a point of time when we are talking about free movement of talent across the globe, we still fight over who has the right to live and work in a particular city - be it Bombay/Mumbai or Bangalore/Bengaluru.
There were scuffles in Mumbai and North Indian’s were roughed up by Raj Thackrey’s political party. In fact, simmering of unrest exists in every mega city - I see this in Bangalore today. Perhaps some day, there will be attacks on non Kannada’s in Bengaluru. In the past protests have been held stating that the locals do not get jobs. Shops had to paint the Kannada name on their sign boards. It is the same story anywhere in India.
I can understand the part of assimiliation into a new culture-more from a practical point of view. But do we have a mechanism in place to help us with this? Unfortunately no. When I moved to Bangalore, as it was then called, I hunted high and low for audio tapes that would help me learn Kannada, well a few conversational words, at least. The result, zilch. Book stores were stocked with audio tapes and books on how to learn French, Greek, Japanese et all. Nothing on Kannada. I am sure same is the case with those who arrive in Mumbai - they don’t know how to begin to learn Marathi.
Perhaps my expat friends have a better time in India. They knowwhich nationality they belong to. No one will question them on whether they are a Mumbaikar or a Bengaluruian. But for me, it is a different story.
I guess, I cannot say I am an Indian. That seems to be an unknown alien word.
Mera Bharat Mahan, (India is a great country) this is what I learnt in school and at home. Will this help me today? I wonder……..
ends
I here with again re-affirm my stand.
Everybody is welcome to my city as long as they stay in their limit and try not to assert their identity over the locals.
This should be the law for every state.
Staying in a place for few years doesn’t make anyone a local. Local is one who tries to adopt the culture of the place he makes his new home.
Be a Roman while in Rome ! - Simple and Plain.
To Learn Kannada ,
go to http://www.kannadakali.org
"Everybody is welcome to my city as long as they stay in their limit and try not to assert their identity over the locals."
Thats hardly a welcoming gesture - sounds more like a veiled threat to me! How does one decide what my "limits" are ? I think the constitution already fixed those. Also, how does one assert or not assert one’s identity ? I have not heard of ANY formal attempt in Bangalore to try and seced e to Punjab or WB or any other country or declare that Bangalore’s official food is Butter Chicken (I am vegetarian myself) etc.
In that sort of a welcome there’s a lot of mistrust etc. I come to Bangalore to enrich myself economically, and otherwise, and I hope I have in turn enriched the city in some small way too. In that open, expectation-less exchange lies advancement, growth and vibrancy.
Or we can both dig in and slug things out the MNS way if thats what you suggested I should/dare not do…
Sad.
Also, why are you
a) trying hard to prove I (and similar) are NOT local. I do not necessarily lay claim to being local, yet that does not rob me of any rights to live here, like the city and does not automatically make those who ARE locals more interested in its betterment. If anything, the corporators and those that run the place are proof to the contrary.
b) assuming "ownership" of the city while simultaneously denying the same to all its other denizens.
Can you ask people to help out or participate after vocally denying them any sense of ownership ? Hardly sounds like the right way forward. A much better approach might be to be inclusive, and share as equals the burdens and joys of the city.
But then, as an "outsider" who the hell gave me that right. Correct ?
Sorry if I’m beginning to spam by now - but thanks for the Kannadakali link, and possibly contrary to the culture of the place (I wouldn’t know, would I?), I wish all of Bangalore a Happy Valentines Day!
To Mr Raju,
Nobody is trying to "assert their identity over the locals" in Karnataka as they have so many other things to do. It is businessmen born and brought up in Karnataka that is making it "more Western" than the famed local culture.
The British made Bangalore their cantonment in the past. They made all the "bar" and "pub" culture in Bangalore. Have you "locals" done anything in the last 50 years to dismantle all these Anglo-Western culture? Nothing right? Did you "locals" advise your autorickshaw bretheren not to fleece, threaten, and attack travellers, because Kuvempu, the greatest poet of 20th century Kannada literature, believed in Universal Humanism or Vishwamaanava? In his own word:
"Every child, at birth ,is the universal man. But, as it grows, we turn it into "a petty man". It should be the function of the education to turn it again into the original "universal man".
"The child which by birth was the universal man is fettered by us with such constraints as country, language, religion, caste race and colour.
To free it from all these limitations and transform it into "the enlightened soul", that is to say the universal man, — this should become the first and foremost function of our education, culture, civilization and what not.
All children of the world should become "unhoused" beings, if the world should survive , should continue to live, and advance."
And for those who thinks, Hindi is our national language and anyone who speaks hindi can expect everyone else to revert in hindi, here are some points to ponder:
India has a diverse list of languages spoken among different groups of people. The Constitution of India has stipulated the usage of English and Hindi to be the two languages of official communication for the union government. Additionally, it also classifies a set of 22 scheduled languages which are languages that can be officially adopted by different states for administrative purposes, and also as a medium of communication between the national and the state governments.
There is no such thing called India’s National Language mentioned in the constitution.
It is the common replacement for ‘official language of the union’. It is pretty clear that any talk of a national language falls outside the constitution. When we look at the list of national symbols there is no mention of national language. When it is matter of constitution what is not mentioned is not there.
If we refer to article 343, it clearly states that Hindi in devanagari script is an official language of the union of India along with English. This draws a clear picture since India has adopted a federal, republic model of governance, each state has the full authority and right to decide the modalities of governance and operation.
Further article 344 provides constitutional guarantee and provisions for promoting hindi as language of union. Though it was stipulated for 15 years, it is still in vogue with few amendments. Of course hindi is being promoted at the expense of tax payers money for no reasons which are meaningful now.
All the governements and Hindi speaking Indians are promoting the wrong notion of "Hindi is National Language" through the text books, Hindi prachara sabhe etc.This wrong notion has been inscribed into Hinid speaking people of India upto such a level that they are looking at those who don’t know Hindi as non Indian and they are making derogatory reamrks disrespecitng other citizens of India.
In those states that have embraced trilinguitic policy, students are being made to learn Hindi as one additional language mandatorily. This is not a necessity today. Majorly this is affecting the students of southern states. Going by that logic the Students of Hindi speaking states should learn one southern language mandatorily. But yes this is not proper and does not seem to be necessary. Making students learn Hindi mandatorily is also eually improper and does not seem to be be necessary any more. Yes for sure imposing Hndi has become a cash cow for the business men who are selling entertainedment, Hindi movies etc, since their reach is increasing. But aslas this is being done suppressing other languges. They are not complementary but becoming supplementory, indicating a untimely death for other languages if situation continues the same way. All these imposing of Hindi, increasing superirity complex of Hindiites and belittling of other languages are being done with the pretext of Hindi being national language. We are in a stage where we need to stop this and correct the worng doings, else the day is not far when the non Hindiites get into slavery again.
@Ramana
How’d "Hindi", "Slavery" etc get into the whole debate ? Nowhere did i see any assertion of a compulsory national language or suchlike. Its a free country after all. This angle belongs to the 70s or 80s or earlier when another set of idea-bankrupt "leaders" had raised the Hindi war-cry - and I do not think is relevant today at all.
Hindi movies, and even a lot of Tamil and Telugu movies, have cut across identity issues for a whole bunch of reasons - and lets look at them purely from an entertainment angle.
Language too is a means of communication - why the egos attached to them ? If there’s discomfort and hesitation anyone feels in a new place/with a new language - its useful to bridge the communication gap by either learning the other, or evolving a unique hybrid (that numerous cities have done). Decrying this language or that, or the people who speak those, merely betrays a lack of proper response to a simple communication issue. If we’ve let our tiny discomforts with languages, ideas, tastes etc amplify into mistrust and even hatred, we’ve started to lose our way as a civilization.
Language is not just for communication my friend.
India as a nation comprises of various languages and cultures. Every individual represents his language and culture likewise language and culture are symbols of ones identity. India considers itself a republic because it comprises of different states which has its own language and culture. There was a strong cultural and administrative reason to form the states based on linguistic affiliation, because of the vast diversity in culture and language. Thus each state has its own official language which mostly differs from that of other states’. That language is the lifeline of the people of state and it represents its culture, since language is the media for communication and inheritance of culture.
Hindi was accepted as official language in some states and it represented the culture of only those states. According to Indian Constitution, 18 languages are accepted as the official languages. Among these 18 languages a single language does not represent India’s culture in its entirety. A situation where a single language can represent India’s culture can only be made possible by suppressing India’s diverse cultures.
Since decades Hindi is being propagated and being wrongly promoted as the national language by Government and private sector. Hindi is being imposed on non Hindi speaking people because of the superiority complex of Hindi speaking people. Due to this other languages are losing their identity and destroying their culture. This consequences can be seen in Mumbai, Gujarat, Punjab, Hariyana. The day is not far when Kannada and Kannadigas will lose their identity and culture, if the current imposing continues. In the early days visual media was under the control of Indian Government. Hence telecast was also in Hindi. Cinema producers finding more profit due to this started imposing Hindi on a large basis. Audio-visual entertainment programmes, Hindi film songs were successful in imposing Hindi in every way. This is a very grim situation because this type of imposing is being done by suppressing other languages and cultures .
There are so many (incorrect) assumptions there that I better not even start trying.
Hindi speakers have a "superiority" complex ? Wow - never would’ve guessed that. [ am one myself, and am aware of all the myths about the South that exist "up North" - and know how few of those fit the above statement ]
For me, language is what I use to communicate. If I can communicate, its done its job - I will not burden it with imagined honour or affronts, interpretations of "culture", or other such attributes. That only makes communication tougher and less likely - and once communication breaks down - there’s little hope that people will or can understand each other.
Sameer,
If you don’t realize the importance of a language in the existance of a culture, then I can just pity on you. Without knowing a language, I can definately not understand the tribe which speaks that language. Until I don’t understand the tribe, I can’t become one among them. Until I don’t become a part of the society I am living with. Then, I’ll go insearch of someone who shares my feeling and would like to create a island for ourselves to avoid interacting with locals.
I need not say, where do you fit in.
Sameer,
If you don’t realize the importance of a language in the existance of a culture, then I can just pity on you. Without knowing a language, I can definately not understand the tribe which speaks that language. Until I don’t understand the tribe, I can’t become one among them. Until I don’t become a part of the society I am living with, I’ll speak like a dumb ass and I’ll go in search of someone who shares my feeling and would like to create a island for ourselves to avoid interacting with locals.
I need not say, where do you fit in.
* dumb-ass
* pity
Thank you.
I can see my points were directed into a void. I was, in fact, trying to make a point about using language (whether learning, teaching, and preferably both - hence the hybrid) - to TRY and communicate with others - locals or not. Avoiding them is a conclusion you derived despite my attempt in the contrary direction.
I’ve presumable failed to communicate to you my intent - sorry about that. Hence, I guess I do not "fit in". Oh well, so be it - free country, after all (?)
Congrats all!, this discussion had made it to the 2nd most active discussion for the last week.
I am not quite sure if the discussion is over yet, but I guess all of us have had our say. Now, I guess we are kind of getting into a loop. Fortunately, the majority of the people in Bangalore do not advocate extreme positions. I would still like to believe that we can live with each other without treading on the other’s toes.
Any change in the status quo of a population is bound to result in a flux for some time. And vested interests will always use such situations to suit their purpose. The growth of the city lies in our hands, and when people unite, even the politicians will to divert their energies more positively.
As the line from Bombay to Bangkok goes, "We are same same but different" Like it or not, we will have to live with each other. This land and resources belong to all of us. No individual or entity can stake singular claim to it.
and now to all my friends here, who thinks it’s against the country if you talk about the plight of locals.
Here is an article about the Idea of India and it’s implementaion flaws.
http://karnatique.blogspot.com/2008/02/india-fine-idea-with-implementation.html
@Ramana
Isnt it sad that the worlds adopting more of:
"plight of locals" ==> "blame the outsiders"
"hindu" ==> "anti muslim/christian/?" (and vice versa)
"for X" ==> "anti Y"
by and large?
Sure the locals’ plight is important, and I’d love to participate in solving them. But at the outset, the whole "us vs them" distracts from problems and solutions. If the attempt is to say that the outsiders ARE the problem that the locals have, thats another discussion altogether, and a larger problem by itself.
Also, just talking about assimilation/diversity is NOT about ignoring anyone’s problem.
The mistake kannadigas made was allowing ppl indescriminately from other states, especially neighbouring states since decades. Just look at T Nadu, how they have made their state unfriendly to outsiders, and also come here and try to impose their culture.If outsiders think they are brighter than kannadigas,then why can’t they create jobs in their states? Why they come here begging for jobs? why can’t their society create a city like Bangalore? Why their politicians who have great connections in delhi, recreate magic of Bangalore? Anybody can say anything they want, but Kannada and Kannadiga are important in Karnataka. Their cannot be any comporomise on jobs. There shud be 100% reservation for Kannadigas(as we have already done lot of charity for outsiders by giving them highly paid jobs). Now the time has come to ensure all new jobs reserved for Kannadigas. Actually Blore is sitting on a volcano of discontentment. We are expected to give all jobs to outsiders, we have to provide world class infrastructure for Blore, but no infrastructure for Karnataka(as happened in Railways,- shared between lalu and velu both products of regional,chauvinistic politics.) & no jobs for Kannadigas in IT, NON-IT, railways etc.I think
enough is enough. We have to accept we r a diverse country. Every person wants to protect his language and culture, so do Kannadigas.
And don’t try to bring in Constitution here, bcoz Constituion should fulful local aspirations. If that is not happening there will be resistance, friction and frequent agitations.
Bangalore is Bangalore bcoz of Kannadigas & their culture.But now every Kannadiga is regretting for making their city a global brand.Bcoz the sufferings have increased for ordinary kannadigas.They want their Blore back.
All other states r standing with begging bowl for investment.But here in Karnataka, it is just opposite, ppl want these IT inds to leave the city to make it livable.