Mad dogs and drivers

This blog had literally gone to the dogs yesterday. And going by the papers today, political activists in the city too. Did you read the calls like “BBMP workers should be tried for murder, because ultimately they are responsible for death of those two children”? Few ministers have conveniently distanced themselves leaving BBMP alone to fight for itself. Yes, the same ministers whose pictures will show up in all the papers when it is time to take credit for the next BBMP infrastructure project.

Anyway, before I digress, do this. Open today’s TOI. Page 3. That “HD Revanna and dogs” story hogs all the attention there. Right below that, spot a small piece that reports – 3 killed in road accidents. All were hit and run cases, 2 on Outer Ring Road itself.

For lack of handy reference, I am going to guess that 50-100 people die on roads in and around Bangalore every month. That perhaps is the number of lives our street canines would take in a decade. And there are protests and rallies and hulla gulla with everyone saying kill the dogs and hang BBMP officials. But for the daily hit and runs, no such calls or protests for anyone, neither the ones responsible for safety of pedestrians, nor those mad drivers.

If I have to pick between caging street dogs and mad drivers, I know what I’d prefer. However, I also know that in our country, the easier jobs get done sooner than hundred times more important ones. Yes, it is a lot easier to punish the dogs.

Wonder why somethings are taken for granted.

PS: edited the inappropriate sounding subject.

42 Comments so far

  1. Salil (unregistered) on March 3rd, 2007 @ 2:35 pm

    Don’t necessarily agree. Inability to cope with one problem shouldn’t delay solving the other (which “should” be easier to address). Except for both situations causing death, they hardly have anything in common. Yes, rash drivers should be punished. But how should it get priority over eliminating other menaces of the society? If its easier to counter one menace, it is. period. Next, we will have someone crying out to first eliminate the terrorists in Kashmir before starting to cull canines – yes that issue needs to be addressed, but shouldn’t always be linked to this one.

  2. silkboard (unregistered) on March 3rd, 2007 @ 2:59 pm

    Salil, fair enough. But you are needlessly getting distracted into Kashmir and things. Next you will equate this with Chandraayan vs Poverty debate.

    The point is – your child is 100 times more likely to be killed by a motorist than a street dog. Yet, a motorist running people over doesn’t get as much mention and doesn’t draw as many protests and as much pandemonium. That is all I was wondering about.

    Just a Freakonomics like observation, if you have read that interesting book.

  3. VS (unregistered) on March 3rd, 2007 @ 3:01 pm

    @SB, the main issue with street dogs has been somewhat lost by these killing incident, though unfortunately it took the lives of 2 innocent kids for this issue to come into the mainstream. Comparing death in a road accident to being killed by a street dog is a nobrainer, the chance of being killed by a street dog is next to nothing. So comparing these two is comparing apples and mustard seeds. So please think before you post things like this, just to make a statement.
    However consider what are the chances of being bitten, maimed, having an accident coz of pack of dogs chasing u.. ur almost guaranteed to have it if you venture out early morning or late night.
    So when the authorities/NGO/animal lovers talk of vaccinating/neuter etc dogs and letting them back, will the ensure that these dogs will not bite anyone?
    If they are really serious then they must really be talking about training these dogs after they have been vaccinated.. is this really possible?
    When it is difficult to control a pack of humans(riots,protests etc), how can you possibly control a pack of dogs? When a group of dogs get together, their animal instincts take over… do they any viable solution to control this?
    I agree with what Salil says above, basically this is an issue we can deal with immediately and with positive results. So folks save your love for animals crap for your pseudo elitist discussions with your fellow CUPA members.

  4. Salil (unregistered) on March 3rd, 2007 @ 4:01 pm

    @SB: the distraction was actually my “anti-point”. of being distracted by a motor accident and its subsequent non-protests. the point here is not how much protests or pandemonium an event causes, but the will and ability to cope/solve it. the kashmir mention was just an analogy, not to be taken literally. similarly, the motor accident can be used analogously, and not be linked to the solution of this problem at hand – however less important it might be statistically (@your point about 1000 times more likely etc.) Personally, I feel every motorist who break the tiniest of traffic law should have his license confiscated and such….but that might or might not happen soon. What can happen is making my journey to my home late at night safer without the fear of being attacked by some meat-loving canine. I don’t think it’s too much to ask for. How much mention/attention what issue gets in the media is inconsequential at this “personal” level atleast.

  5. silkboard (unregistered) on March 3rd, 2007 @ 5:08 pm

    Animal lovers, elitist discussions, CUPA ? VS sir, don’t put words in my mouth here. Why are you and others not so emotive about the other important type of death on the very same streets in the very same city?

    It is the perception, isn’t it. Dogs running wild with big sharp teeth, chasing children. That doesn’t compare with utility like an automobile, that too being driven by human beings like you and me.

    Salil, peace. Not to say that the dog menace being the easier one to solve should not be dealt with ASAP. But I find it interesting that the very similar other issue doesn’t get us or them politicians as emotional and worked up because we ‘think’ it is a very hard one to solve.

    BTW, “BMTC and BCP officials be damned” – did HD Revanna say that when a Volvo or that BMTC bus killed a few pedestrians?

    This is how things work. Cheers.

  6. Yasmine Claire (unregistered) on March 3rd, 2007 @ 10:01 pm

    SB and others…firstly, this incident happened in an area outside the jurisdiction of any NGO involved in Animal Birth Control. Precisely the point-Unsterilised dogs, especially in the mating season will attack. They will attack if there is a food source that they perceive is being threatened by others. It is a pure biological reaction. In this case it is the illegal meat shops that should never have been there.

    Besides, no dog will identify a human and say hey let us kill him.

    What was a four year old boy doing unsupervised outside his home? Where were his parents? How can anyone allow a child so young to be outside with no one apparently there. Reports say that he was playing, if so, why were a bunch of very young children playing with no adult around? Anything can happen, children can get injured, a vehicle can hit them …anything….we will never know the truth. No pack of dogs are going to identify a human child , march up and attack him. There must have been some provocation. Either this child walked up to them while they were eating, or else, taught by adults, shooed and booed them, leading to the attack. Ever so often, adults teach children to throw stones at dogs, hit them, during Diwali, they tie crackers to their tail and laugh when the dog howls on pain. So why wont a dog retaliate? Any species will attack if a threat is perceived. Are we not culling over six hundred dogs weekly as a knee jerk reaction? Culling thousands, by that reckoning, of healthy, friendly dog.

    You cannot put human life over and above all other species. Then where do you stop? Once you have rejected that we all are different species and must co-exist in a symbiotic relationship, you also reject other things. Then you say, my religion is superior to yours, my language is greater, my culture is better, so lets all kill each other. Right?

    Kill all the dogs and invite the plague as did Surat. The killed all the dogs and the next thing was that rats took over because a vacuum cannot exist in nature. Some other species takes over. So will happen in Bangalore and then may you have a good time.

    Stray Dogs are man eaters? Please…you insult your intelligence.

    As for the media, all they want is a sensational story. Lorry drivers kill people everyday. How boring. Not worth news. Not worth creating a sensation over. Makes no political sense either. After all, politicians depend so much on lorry drivers -for transport of their ill gotten stuff, for votes, for so much more I am sure. Dogs are not vote banks.

    SB-Ever read about the stray dog who saved a 5 year old from being washed away in the Tsunami? Bet you did not. Ever read about the dogs who go to special schools , stray dogs, and give therapy to the disabled children there? ….????????

    Rather than taking a Nazi attitude, we have to work sensibly. True, violent dogs will be euthanized. Euthanized, not culled. Sometimes language also makes us insensitive. The others, must live and live peacefully.

  7. yasmine claire (unregistered) on March 3rd, 2007 @ 10:11 pm

    my comment above is directed at VS. Sorry for the error.

  8. Jellicles (unregistered) on March 3rd, 2007 @ 11:15 pm

    the problem is fear. people see a couple of dogs chasing them on the street and they label them as ‘lurking man eaters’. is the fear justifiable? yes. i am sure it is terrifying.

    but if you set aside that fear for a moment and look for a solution, we can make this work. first…when you sterilise them, their behaviour is modified. mating season is the time when dogs tend to chase people and attack. pack behaviour kicks in during mating season. dogs, afterall, have descended from wolves. they are merely defending their territory and their right to procreate. after sterilisation, their attitude changes remarkably. REMARKABALY! people who have had animals as pets as well as people who have indeed participated in programs that involve such programs will vouch for this.

    secondly, when you vaccinate dogs and collar them, they can easily be identified as animals that cannot spread disease. right now, when you see the tip of the ear has been slightly torn, you know that the dog is vaccinated. there are also other signs that indicate whether or not it has been neutered/spayed. that they are vaccinated, will give enormous peace of mind to the general public.

    what is the public’s role in all this,

    1. someone has to pressurise the govt and the politicians to do their job. it’s their job to take care of this.

    2. if they don’t approach other animal organisations who undertake these operations. do it for your home..your street..YOUR CHILDREN. it doesnt cost much and its a pittance if everyone on the street shares the cost.

    3. infact, get the children involved. let a child from every house adopt a dog on the street. it will teach him/her responsibility and he/she wont feel fear. they dont have to bring the dog into the house, but let them watch out for the dog. make them maintain a little journal where they record their vaccinations, when its due next..if the dog is exhibiting strange scratching itself..has it hurt itself…how the dog tries to communicate etc. or if the child is visual, encourage him to draw/sketch/pain. you may have a budding writer or artist right there. it will most certainly result in a kinder, gentler and saner future. fear is the root of all this nonsense. let not another generation grow up with fear of animals and end up as adults who want to cull living things weaker than themselves.

    4. there is a little bit of work involved. make sure the vaccinations are updated. make the necessary calls to get the job done. and pay for it. pay for it..not because there arent people who wont do it for free. it is just that when you pay for it, the resources that these NGOs have will serve the really poor areas that are neglected by the govt and will benefit people and animals who need it most. no point tying up resources. if you can blog, you can pay 300 rupees for the sake of co-existance. also, when one pays for something in cold hard cash, one tends to be more involved with the issue at hand.

    5. finally, feed the poor creatures. dont throw away leftovers. give him proper nutrition and watch the dog grow healthy…with flesh on his bones…his coat will shine…his eyes will be bright. a good sight better than a skinny dog rifling through garbage bins or worse, a dead dog. and seriously, take care of that garbage. please.

    “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” – Mahatma Gandhi

  9. Kishore Murthy (unregistered) on March 4th, 2007 @ 12:56 am

    Kids can be a easy target for dogs, be it a trained house dog or stray. In my opinion one of the many reasons for the stray dogs to become increasingly aggressive is the decline of open trash bins… many neighborhoods have daily collections of trash now. The removal of a major source of their food is very hard on the dog and probably become more aggressive and behave in a primal fashion just to survive.

    If there are enough funds then maybe all the dogs can be taken of the streets, neutered and put in enclosures… There are many good samaritans who feed stray dogs. Now those people might face trouble as these incidents of killings by stray dogs have given the dogs a bad name. This might lead to removal of yet another source of food and make the survival of dogs hard and push them into becoming very desperate. Even supporters of cruelty against animals might be seen negatively by the general public because of these incidents.

    Of course some dogs may be aggressive to begin with and will just have to be put away or put down (humanely).

    There may be many other reasons too…

  10. Kishore Murthy (unregistered) on March 4th, 2007 @ 12:57 am

    Kids can be a easy target for dogs, be it a trained house dog or stray. In my opinion one of the many reasons for the stray dogs to become increasingly aggressive is the decline of open trash bins… many neighborhoods have daily collections of trash now. The removal of a major source of their food is very hard on the dog and probably become more aggressive and behave in a primal fashion just to survive.

    If there are enough funds then maybe all the dogs can be taken of the streets, neutered and put in enclosures… There are many good samaritans who feed stray dogs. Now those people might face trouble as these incidents of killings by stray dogs have given the dogs a bad name. This might lead to removal of yet another source of food and make the survival of dogs hard and push them into becoming very desperate. Even supporters of cruelty against animals might be seen negatively by the general public because of these incidents.

    Of course some dogs may be aggressive to begin with and will just have to be put away or put down (humanely).

    There may be many other reasons too…

  11. VS (unregistered) on March 4th, 2007 @ 2:36 am

    @yasmine claire, did u even read what I posted or just assumed that I want all dogs to be killed?
    And regarding the Surat analogy, so you folks (I read some CUPA doctor saying the same thing in Deccan Herald) the best defense is a misinformation campaign (You must thank Bush, Cheney for this idea).. if you kill dogs plague will come.. nice one.
    If you are saying they are maintaining ecological balance, then it means they must be eating/killing rodents etc.. so then why do you bring up the garbage, meat stall issue if you say that dogs are eating rodents?
    Dogs are growing in numbers coz they have no natural predators in the city and that is where we have to step in :)
    And you want people to feed them !! for what ? so that they can bite people better?
    So please think before you post some rubbish arguments just to get your point through.
    BTW how many stray dogs have you adopted? Also please read Salil’s response above.
    @SB.. jumping the gun eh !? Please re-read my comment.. The CUPA comment is for CUPA members/animal-lovers :)

  12. Yasmine Claire (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 10:22 am

    Hey VS, do some homework dear. Read up…it is a well documented fact that the plague in Surat was caused by killing the dogs. Educate yourself about the Red Sparrow Campaign as well. Then lets talk.

    Rubbish arguments?… methinks you doth protest too much.

    BTW thanks for the confession…(Dogs are growing in numbers coz they have no natural predators in the city and that is where we have to step in :))

    so apart from cannibalistic pedophiles we have dog eating humans….!!!

    BTW i have adopted 11 stray dogs….how many

    children do you help?

    Pseudo? have you done hands on work for humans? worked side by side with needy people? worked hands on with children? slum dwellers? HIV+ people? anyone?????? been down to the grassroots? donated any money, time to a worthy cause?

    Pseudo?….any animal welfare person will tell you that they do tough work. They are there hands on doing all they can for a cause they believe in.

    You go do your bit for humans and earn yourself the right to argue. Shooting off half-baked comments on blogs is surely not all you can do.

    besides..hey…take your pet aversion NGOS’ to task..go ask CUPA for their audit reports…you may be surprised.

    go spend a few hours at the pound…and then talk.

  13. George E Matthew (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 1:49 pm

    Yasmine, if you like stray dogs soo much keep them in your house. DO not let them run on the street. Let all public places be dog free.

  14. Yasmine Claire (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 2:18 pm

    Dear George,

    Must I insult your intelligence? Have you read anything? Have you read the WHO reports on stray dogs and why they must not be killed? Do you know anything about a scientific approach to solving problems?

    Now do not tell me that you are one of those people in the mob who only shout and yell with looking into all the sides of an issue. Coz that is how you sound.

    By that logic you give- All those working for ragpickers must take in ragpickers into their homes.
    All those working with homeless children must take in all of them into their homes.
    ….there should be no orphanages because there are enough people who love children to take them into their homes, no old age homes , beacuse we love our parents and wont abandon them, even of some people do, others who love elderly people will take them in.

    We have to work towards a system that is humane and that works for both humans and animals.This means we co-exist…peacefully.

    and do remember someone once said..”What you have done to the littlest among us, you have done to me”

  15. Yasmine Claire (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 2:19 pm

    Dear George,

    Must you insult your intelligence? Have you read anything? Have you read the WHO reports on stray dogs and why they must not be killed? Do you know anything about a scientific approach to solving problems?

    Now do not tell me that you are one of those people in the mob who only shout and yell with looking into all the sides of an issue. Coz that is how you sound.

    By that logic you give- All those working for ragpickers must take in ragpickers into their homes.
    All those working with homeless children must take in all of them into their homes.
    ….there should be no orphanages because there are enough people who love children to take them into their homes, no old age homes , beacuse we love our parents and wont abandon them, even of some people do, others who love elderly people will take them in.

    We have to work towards a system that is humane and that works for both humans and animals.This means we co-exist…peacefully.

    and do remember someone once said..”What you have done to the littlest among us, you have done to me”

  16. silkboard (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 2:24 pm

    While you all were forcing me to discuss dogs and dogs alone which I didn’t want to, at least 9 more lives were lost on the roads, most hit and runs based on last 3 day’s news reports. Most of them could have been saved with a little effort all around towards enforcement and pedestrian safety.

    These deaths happened on the streets – same or at least similar venue as dog bites. Not only are the venues similar, the nature of the two issues too is similar. Its a bit of our fault, and a bit city govt’s. We dump trash on the street and invite those dogs. But yes, there aren’t enough bins. We drive like mad dogs. Yes, there may not be enough cops to police us.

    But see how you all are stuck with the dogs. Some attacking me for defending the dogs, some attacking me for attacking them, when I said neither.

    At least to myself, I proved that we lay more stress on the relatively unimportant and perceptive issues. Whereas our actions and decisions should be based on facts, aka statistics.

    Now, go on and attack me again with your “lower hanging fruits first” theory. However, do google around to figure that despite the street dog menace here, number of deaths due to dog bites in a US city the size of Bangalore would be higher than the number you have for Bangalore.

    Thus concludes my last comment on this post.

  17. VS (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 2:47 pm

    @yasmine .. thanks for branding me a dog eater,
    although i think the “dog” problem would not have existed had there been a dish with a fancy sounding french name made out of dog meat sold in Mcdonalds :)

    If you are a serious animal lover, you should be looking into this : The gov’t has started giving quarrying licenses in the western ghats in the name of a road widening project. This will seriously affect the wildlife/ecology of the western ghats and it affects everyone including the real WILD animals , not just some urban predator-less canines.

    BTW the best animal welfare you could do is not knowing they exist. Animals were here long before humans, and they certainly don’t need any help from humans in surviving.

    Think long and hard about this before you start your diatribe…. again..

  18. jellicles (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 3:00 pm

    vs, do you know what ‘red herring’ means?

    animals will be able to survive if they are not being actively ‘culled’ by irresponsible cowards.

    urban predator?? you..YOU…are accusing yasmine of ‘diatribe’? the cure for verbal diarrehea is silence, you know…

  19. VS (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 3:26 pm

    @Jelli kallu.. you should know the mean of red herring, coz that has been the strategy of you folks. Please read my comment once again.. I said predator-less.
    Take it easy.

  20. jellicles (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 3:51 pm

    excuse me…am i calling you VERY STUPID instead of your chosen handle, “VS”? or are you visually challenged that you cannot see that i sign as ‘Jellicles’?

  21. Naayi Neralu (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 3:52 pm

    @Yasmin Claire says “Besides, no dog will identify a human and say hey let us kill him.” Really? My uncle was bitten on the leg from the back for no reason. The pack mentality of these dogs is also dangerous especially when a child is around. Let’s be practical about these things. Now you are blaming the young victims for their own death at the hands of the stray dogs?

    Animal lovers are the real problem. Rich elitist socialites dictating how to deal with this problem while it is the poor who are at the greatest risk. Stray dog issue in Bengaluru is also a class problem. Fortress like homes where many of these animal lovers live don’t have to deal with them while the poor who live in neglected areas are easy targets of the stray animals.

    The corruption of these NGOs should also be exposed who are profiting in the name of animal love. BMP spend 6+ crores last year on these shady NGOs.

    If you love stray animals then adopt them. Stop preaching love and compassion. The hypocracy of these animal lovers was on full display at a recent BMP meeting where only a handful of them signed up to adopt stray animals. Some even left fake phone numbers.

  22. jellicles (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 4:13 pm

    to naavi neralu,

    did you know that both the incidents where the children were mauled by the feral pack happened in the same area? did you know that there are garbage dumps and illegal meat shops in the area that attracts these dogs? please..let us not detract from the crux of the matter…are those illegal meat shops still there? i am guessing they are nd if they have ‘disappeared’, they’ll be back in a month or two.

    the ‘real problem’ is really something else, not animal lovers. the lower strata of society really do consider these dogs as their best friends. it is these people who pester animal welfare organisations to come and give the dogs their shots. it takes a little convincing to drive home the point of sterilisation, but they come around to it eventually.

    this mass hysteria that has been triggered off by two unfortunate and tragic incident has to be analysed. the ‘problem’ is very clear. the problem is not about the strays or the people who are fond of them. there has been a remarkable decrease in the number of rabies related deaths since the ABC program has been implemented.

    you know what the outcome of this mass hysteria is..? neutered and vaccinated dogs…ALL of them are probably gentle enough to be led away to their death…are being murdered. never mind the cost that went into keeping them healthy and sterilising them…but these dogs which are perfectly nurturing and gentle are being sent to their deaths because the politicians are acting in accordance to the fear raising tactics of the rabble rousers. think about it..the irony of it all.

  23. NG (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 4:17 pm

    @Yasmin Claire: You adopted 11 stray dogs? You must be a very lonely person … perhaps an English teacher?

  24. Naayi Neralu (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 4:27 pm

    To JELLICLES: Chandra Layout and BEML Layout are in different parts of the city. Get your basic geography right. One is in the western part and the other is in eastern part.

    Why are the dog bite related injuries or deaths are on the rise if ABC program is a success? NGOs are hiding the facts while stealing the public funds.

  25. Salil (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 5:34 pm

    Was just curious….are all animal-lovers/activists vegetarian by default? (If they are not, this discussion can take a completely tangential turn ;)

  26. Sanjay Pandey (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 7:10 pm

    I was just wondering. If you neuter all the dogs, that means, no second generation after the current one.

    BTW to put the record straight, I took a hard and killing attitude just to see what animal lovers are doing for this problem. Yasmin – Jellicles, sorry for provoking you people.

    @yasmin & @Jellicles – The life span of a dog is around 12-14 years. (Correct me if I am wrong). That means the species, you are batting for today becomes extinct in next 15 years. Not a single member left alive. Am I right? So what you both are proposing just a postponement of what others are saying.

    We also have to keep in mind the parting statement of @SB. It is profound in implication. By nature people is USA are more animal loving that us. Still the case of death due to canine causes is higher than in Bangalore for a similar city. What it means? It only means that the western method of having NGOs work on this problem does not work.
    To me the solution looks like going back to the past and taking a deep look at the root cause of this problem. Root cause is breakup of symbiotic relationship between man and dogs. The places where it exists, this problem does not arise. For example – Calcutta. In my whole of 36 years, I did not hear a similar incident over there, whereas, in calcutta, number of canines is more than Bangalore as well as humans. Both are packed tight, population wise.
    Neither killing dogs nor letting them kill kids is acceptable.
    In Bangalore, in the name of progress we have done away with some of the traditional things. Prime being, dumping of leftover food outside homes or calling up the local dog to feed it. Having open garbage dumps, where they can look for food and so on.

    We need to think on these terms.

    A proactive way I think would be to each street have a garbage dump, called food dump and leftovers are dumped in them. The dogs will then use them as food points and after a couple of weeks, I can assure you, neutered or non-neutered, they will not attack anyone. This is not just theorising, but something which I have implemented in my homeplace in calcutta and it has worked. We had these dogs and they come to their food point, they eat whenever they want, they breed and we have perpetual companions and guardians of locality. They also keep other dogs outside locality in every season (during mating we see outside dogs coming in, and being chased out by these local ones).Thiefs and robbers have forgotten the way to our locality as they all know that these guardians are standing.

    But this will take around 2-3 months to put in place for a city like bangalore. My question is what to do till then.

  27. yasmine claire (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 9:39 pm

    Hey NG…you make me laugh….all english teachers are lonely? oh! but alas! neither am I an english teacher nor am I lonely!

  28. yasmine claire (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 9:46 pm

    Naayi Neralu……go to a slum and see how they love the dogs. Then go ask the tea stall owner, the dhobi, the watchman….they too will tell you they love their strays.

    NGO corruption? here is a challenge for you. Go to CUPA, demand the audit reports, check them out right from 2001 and then chew and swallow your words. Do it! I challenge you.


  29. jellicles (unregistered) on March 5th, 2007 @ 10:59 pm

    sanjay pandaey, what you say makes sense if you think in absolutes. ABC program tries to keep the population under check and attempts to keep the animals healthy. as an example, i tried to get some of the strays fixed and vaccinated in vasanth nagar. these people do not know the dogs. on the day, we could only catch two dogs(one was limping..he was treated and vacinnated..he was already neutered. the other dog had to be put down because he was too ill)and i myself knew that there were at least half a dozen dogs..out of which one was a mother dog and several puppies. when asked to keep the dogs ready(they were in the shelter for a month), the people on the streets simply hid them(and some of them were intact..the puppies especially will grow upto have their own puppies) because they thought we were going to harm the dogs. on the other hand, there have been cases where people ’round’ up dogs in their streets and make sure they are all accounted for..these residents also make the yearly calls to update vaccination. now…when a dog can have upto 4-6 puppies in a litter..sometimes even eight. when even one dog goes under the ABC radar, you are seeing about 20 new dogs in a year. do the math.

    we are not ‘postponing’ anything. people here are suggesting murder to keep numbers down and are substituting a rational method of controlling population with ‘culling’. sterilisation’s goal is not to make a species extinct. think of this..we are over a billion people in india. the family planning schemes started many years ago. was the intention to make indians ‘extinct’. did they round up the little children, men/women of reproductive age and shoot them because it is inevitable that they’d die in 50 years anyways and instead of wasting money on teaching them about contraception, did anyone try to solve the problem by ‘culling’ them? before someone pounces on me to say that ‘man and dog’ are not the same…..although to me, a dog’s life is no less than a human being’s life..your mileage may vary……i am trying to explain the basic IDEA behind the ABC program.

    and just because the numbers of stray dogs go up and feral packs near illegal meat shops attack people doesnt mean that the ABC program is a failure or that organisations like CUPA are corrupt.

    the public should play an active role. they should not walk away imaginaing that ‘someone else’ will do it. that ‘someone else’ is not god and does not have eyes all over bangalore.

    NN, if what you say is true, my georgraphy is screwed up. as are our newspaper reporters.

  30. George E Matthew (unregistered) on March 6th, 2007 @ 8:57 am

    Please remember that if stray dogs run on the streets, there is always a chance that they may bite someone. I was personally chased by a pair of dogs a few days back in Halasuru. It is quite irritating. I can only imagine the plight of a small child/eldrly person being chased in that way.

    The poor suffer most from this. Their children play on the streets. There is nobody to look after them-both parents work the whole day. In case the child is bitten,the ratio of cost of medical treatment compared to family income is very high.

    If a rat problem is caused by a lack of stray dogs on the street, whey is there no rat problem in Western nations? If climate is the issue, why is it not a problem in Singapore, which is also a tropical nation? Yasmine is requested to provide a link to the WHO report she cites.Besides, in private gated layouts (like Adarsh Palm Meadows), there are no stray dogs and no rats.

    I agree with “jellicles” that the pulic has a ctive role to play:
    1) Be careful with your garbage, especially if it contains meat.Dispose it correctly
    2)Do not patronize illegal meat shops-if we all did this, they would be forced to close down.
    3)Do not feed strays.
    4)Co-operate with BBMP workers who are catching dogs-in many cases the people of the neighbourhood prevent them catching strays. If you see slackness in their work attitude, report to the health officer. You can get the phone no from

    Think of how you would feel if Manjunath wsa your kid/little brother

  31. Yasmine Claire (unregistered) on March 6th, 2007 @ 9:18 am

    please remember that as long as humans roam the earth, there is always a chance of getting murdered, robbed, maimed, dispossessed, burnt, etc.

    Please do not bring up the ‘poor people’ issue…go investigate the homes of the people you call poor…they love their animals more than we ever can. Besides, go also and ask that all
    surgeries and any other treatment be made free for than as you feel so deeply.

    Singapore is much smaller than India…it does not have the developing nation problems or the many species India has. It does not have a lot of its population living is harsh conditions.
    Gated are precisely that. Gated. So then go gate every layout and see if that solves your problem.
    And read the papers for the WHO report.

    If Manjunath was my brother, i would be shattered. But, I would not take this drastic step. This is the truth. take it or leave it.I would ask for better control, but I would not demand that all dogs die. If someone I know gets murdered/raped , i would make sure that he was brought to justice. But I would not go and ask that all men be killed, nor would I say all men are bastards. All violent dogs are anyway euthanised. Why kill those who are harmless and friendly?

  32. Yasmine Claire (unregistered) on March 6th, 2007 @ 9:47 am

    Also George,

    All those who quote USA and say that they do not have strays, also remember, the USA has stringent punishments for people who behave the way people in Bangalore are now. The unaccounted cruelty that is going on these days, will mean years of prison sentence in the USA. Also in the USA there are several animals shelters, supported by the public, not condemned by the public. The USA has a strict animal welfare policy. They have strict adoption programs, not like here where people take dogs to be watchdogs and then leave them to rot on the streets when they are too old to look after the house.

    Yes, they euthanize dogs and other animals. But this is done humanely, with as little suffering as is possible. Everyone is part of the effort of looking after animals. Those who are cruel to animals have a very strict law to contend with. The media splashes their pages with instances of cruelty and condemn such people.

    What is happening here will be condemned by the USA, UK, Singapore and other places everyone is so fond of quoting and saying that how come they do not have a stray problem.

    Nor do they have an irrational mobster minded public who says Kill.

  33. Naayi Neralu (unregistered) on March 6th, 2007 @ 11:19 am

    To Jellicles & Yasmine (who are one and the same):
    Your geography is still screwed up. You have not even read the news reports properly. Here are the links for your reference. Take a closer look at the photos and understand the pain of these parents. You people have blood on your hands.

    How long before Dog Mafia takes a foothold in the city like the one that exists in Mumbai?

  34. Yasmine Claire (unregistered) on March 6th, 2007 @ 11:36 am

    Hey Naavi…nice to think that Jellicles and me are the same. Speaks volumes for you being net savvy!

    and as for blood on our hands…have you even read what we are speaking about?the common factor in both is illegal meat shops and unsterilised dogs. and that is exactly what we are saying causes this behaviour. and that is exactly what we are trying to tackle. only our approach is a a scientific one vs your kill all policy.

    hey today you think stray dogs are a menace and so kill them, tomorrow if someone decides that cows are a menace, and you go killing them, you will have half of India up in arms. next if alcoholic drivers area menace, will you go and ask that they be killed?

    please talk sense…short term solutions work as the name suggests….short term as did the china sparrow campaign.(

    then we have something far worse in our hands.

    Please understand that indiscriminate killing is not the answer, be you a religious person, an atheist or just a human being.

    All violent dogs are euthanised. but you cannot ask for all to be killed

  35. jellicles (unregistered) on March 6th, 2007 @ 1:16 pm

    naavi.n, smack my bottom and call me mz.macbeth! no me wait…ahh..who cares..

    btw..i’d like to point out that this ‘utopia’ that people imagine singapore to be has no qualms about public lashings for breaking the law. it is particularly hilarious to compare singapore to india know…they dont look kindly upon such behaviour know..chewing gum. hey naavi.n, can you also find me a link that shows pictures of singapore streets with ripe garbage?

  36. jellicles (unregistered) on March 6th, 2007 @ 1:24 pm

    i still cannot understand how i have blood on my hands? do you think my part time job is to visit the dogs and whisper into their ears? this whole attempt to discuss is a complete waste of my time. utterly illogical and irrational.

    is ‘your’ understanding of the parent’s pain helping any…other than creating mass hysteria and making idiotic comments like ‘blood on your hands’, what is your point?

    i didnt think so…

  37. jellicles (unregistered) on March 6th, 2007 @ 1:40 pm

    good grief, naavi…did you even READ the two links you so graciously offered me?

    the problem is not the imaginary blood on my hands..the problem…allow me to paste it for you..i’ll give you the benefit of are obviously seeing man eaters and patches of blood on people’s hands you might have missed these bits..

    cut and pasted from the links naavi provided:

    1. The problem mainly is dumping of garbage, said the residents. Mr. Chandrasekhar said, “Meat waste is dumped at the end of the road. Since it is not cleared regularly, the dogs have found this a most agreeable place to live,” he said.

    The BMP, however, insisted that it had been doing its job of collecting garbage well. “But the problem is that a lot of unauthorised meat shops prop up in the area even after we remove them,” said BMP Commissioner K. Jairaj. Offering his condolences to Sridevi’s parents, Mr. Jairaj said that the BMP would give them Rs. 1 lakh.

    2. BEML’s quarters is a protected area of the Ministry of Defence and civic amenities such as garbage collection, controlling street dogs and streetlights is the responsibility of the BEML authorities.

    “We pay the BEML authorities maintenance fees of Rs. 220 every month but they refuse to even take our calls when we want to complain about the problems we face in our layout,” says Sree Lakshmi, a resident.

    “When we request the BBMP workers to catch street dogs, they demand bribe from us. They ask us to find the dogs and then call them,” she said.

    The road leading to the BEML quarters has heaps of garbage on large tracts of vacant lands.

    The area where Manju, as he was lovingly called, was attacked, also has garbage strewn all over

    Just as in the case of eight-year-old Sridevi, who was killed by a pack of dogs at Chandra Layout, residents sought to blame the meat shops in surrounding areas such as Annasandrapalya, G.M. Palya, Malleshpalya and Jagadishnagar.

    “Meat shop owners come and dump waste at night and it is an easy place for dogs to enter,” says Chandrappa.

    An official at BEML office, who did not want to be named, said BEML had been trying to put up a boundary wall for the past four years.

    “But local politicians have been opposing it. The matter is pending with the BBMP,” he said.

    it is pure nonsense to claim that the ABC program is ineffective because there were two tragic incidents in a short period of time. i myself have authorised the euthanisation of dogs i had sent from the streets for treatment. they were violent and were probably too ill. if anything, its the blood of those dogs on my hands. but i can live with my decision as it is the best for the dog as well as those around it. noone is making a case for sick and out of control dogs to roam the streets of bangalore. it is pure perversion to ask for the death…no..CULLING..of perfectly healthy and well adjusted dogs that are sterilised/vaccinated. dogs bark. cats meow. birds chirp. a barking dog is not a ‘lurking man eater’.

    and it is not really decent to exploit the tragedy of death to push blood thirsty, murderous agendas.

  38. Sri (unregistered) on March 6th, 2007 @ 10:30 pm

    What a wonderful discussion! Yet, what a royal waste of energy! Sounds very much like what our netas do in the parliament…A lot of talk that amounts to nothing!!! Every person prejudiced in his/her own way & “barking” loudly to get heard.
    I wish the same energy was spent by our leaders in solving the problems we have.

  39. Naayi Neralu (unregistered) on March 7th, 2007 @ 10:24 am

    I said poor children are at risk and Yasmine says Dhobis love their strays!! Great ivory tower logic!! Of course love for animals cuts across the classes. A lot of rich folks love their dogs more than their own children. We are talking about higher risk for poor children here and not love.

    ABC program is a waste. NGOs can make all the tall claims but ABC program will alter dogs behaviour and can make them more dangerous and there is no reduction in the number of stray dogs.

  40. yasmine claire (unregistered) on March 7th, 2007 @ 11:39 am

    Naavi.. ABC is a waste you say. Really? So you have personally conducted a research into it? You are an authority on ABC vs culling? You have done in-depth analysis and come to this conclusion? You have been part of both culling and ABC so as to weigh the pros and cons of both? Or have you listened to the media? Have you gone yourself from NGO to NGO, spent time checking out what you want to prove as a waste? Been to the BCC, demanded records? …if not…you are just shooting words here and there

    And Naavi…at least i speak about what i know. i can list out any number of people you classify as poor and show you how they care for and protect their animals. Try taking a dog away from there and you will be lucky to escape with your life. That is because the people , adults and children alike will beat you up. Go visit the places i ask you to, if you really want to lift yourself off your seat and check it out.

  41. Anirban (unregistered) on March 12th, 2007 @ 10:56 pm

    When I was a child, growing up in a not so affluent area in Calcutta (no, not Kolkata), there were two kinds of kids. Those who would stone and maim puppies, and those who would shelter and protect them. I was in the latter group, always there to take a mutt home from a cruel world. As a 6 year old boy, what surprised me the most was how could one be so cruel, so inhuman to the little stray who would wag its tail and come to you unsuspectingly, only to be whacked on the face.

    30 years later, in a different world called Bangalore (or is it Bengaluru?), it seems not much has changed. We have all grown up, but so has the demon inside us. When I read your passionate posts, it makes me wonder. Is the dog really such an evil animal, diabolical and ferocious, out to kill children and bite unsuspecting uncles? Are these not the same brown eyed beauties who have never shown any malice to anyone I know?

    I am not with CUPA. Or any other “organization” that is there helping dogs out there, although I respect their commitment and work. But I have had the misfortune of seeing the “heroic” dog-catchers at work, and what they are doing to the docile creatures who come to them when called. The ferocious ones are not caught as the hired killers have no guts to go after them. Pets with collars. Ear-clipped neutered good natured animals. Does not matter – for Rs.50, anything canine is fair game.

    I saw what the authorities call humane culling happen – boulders crushing skulls, throats slit, clubbing and suffocating. Stood shaking, looking at how casually a man could kill a little brown female obviously crying in pain, blow by blow by blow. But for the restraining arms around me, there would have been more violence that day.

    To me, personally, its terrible that 2 kids died. I have a 2 year old daughter, and I can feel the pain. But what is happening now is unthinkable. Its like a city gone wild, in blood thirst. People who have never had to face a stray, never petted one, are out passing judgements from their cubicles, trying to be a wannabe Singapore, as if the stray dogs are holding them back. Congratulations when you get there – I hope its worth the trade-off you are doing for your heart.

    I don’t care if the NGO’s are corrupt (I don’t think they are, having seen them in action). I would like to debate the fall-out of the actions – Surat plague etc., but thats all out there for anyone not blinded by hate to read. I don’t care if a dog barks at you at night (how would your react to an intruder in your home?).

    But I request all of you who condone this Hitleresque “Final Solution” to go and see how the animals are being tortured and killed.

    Just by walking erect, eating with hands and doing programming one does not become human. If the sight of little animals being butchered does not move you, then you do not deserve the tag anyway.

    Its a sign of the intolerance that is now become so common. 10 years ago, a leopard straying in a village would be caught and handed over to the zoo. Today it is clubbed senseless and then burnt to death.

    Tomorrow, as prescribed by Bangalore, hunters will be sent into the forests to exterminate them.

    And the tigers, and the elephants…and the “untouchables”, the poor, the minorities. Because they are weaker, are different.

    And do not conform. Hence, easy prey…

  42. Siddharth (unregistered) on March 20th, 2007 @ 12:08 pm

    I am pretty sure that the culling of dogs isn’t the best solution to the problem.

    However, the frequency of dog bite related incidents that i personally know of tells me that something better be done about it.

    Stray dogs being friendly and all is a bit contentious.

    I was attacked by a group of 10-12 dogs a few days back and i can tell you that it is nothing short of traumatic. I don’t think a dog lover would have reacted differently. Thats what the problem is , these packs with their territorial instincts.

    Something more. The poor people have a lot more exposure to dogs, that maybe why they vouch for and protect them.

    However, for non poor , non animal loving people , which is also a very large chunk of people, street dogs are more or less nonexistent until you get attacked at !!

    i see absolutely no sense in sharing ground with dogs precisely because they can tend to be non peaceful, esp in packs. solve it the way you know best but theres absolutely no sense in feeding and sharing territory with aggressive dogs.

    the problem i think is worse in Delhi where i live.

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